Share this article:
Print

Atheist ads on TriMet buses raise questions

Click here for a free download of the latest Adobe Flash Player.

by Scott Burton

Posted on November 18, 2009 at 9:14 AM

Updated Wednesday, Nov 18 at 10:37 AM

******

PORTLAND -- A new ad campaign on TriMet buses is raising eyebrows.  It asks, "Are you good without God?"

The ad banners are located on ten TriMet buses and they were purchased by the National Coalition of Reason.  The organization also purchased billboards across the country, along with ads on buses in other cities, in an effort to spark discussion about the exhistance of God.

At the Beaverton Transit Center people were already talking.

"To me, it looks like they're promoting aethism and I would be against that," one TriMet passenger told KGW.

"I think we have freedom of speech and that's what it's all about," added another passenger.

Sylvia Benner from the Portland Coalition said the ads coincide with an upcoming speaking engagement for a Humanist chaplain at Reed College, the approaching Christmas season and a rare opportunity with TriMet.

"It is only when different ideas compete with each other that we can arrive at really good conclusions," she said.

Benner said her coalition represents groups of Portlanders who, simply put, don't believe in God.

"We are in a position now where we are accepting all pretty much a lot of different kinds of advertising. This being one of them," she explained.

In June of 2008, an Oregon judge ruled that if TriMet chose to put ads on its buses, it was placing itself in the same position as a government agency and must allow the constitutional right to free speech.

"We have been told by the trial court that we are a public forum and in that respect, we're allowing free speech and all kinds of messages are being allowed," said TriMet spokeswoman Becki Witt.

And so the advertisements roll forward and TriMet, which said it neither approves or denounces the coalition's message, is now appealing the 2008 ruling. That appeal will go before a judge Monday morning.

Share this article:
Print

To add a comment, please register or login.

Leave your comment
1000 characters remaining

Submit

We welcome your comments on this story's topic. Off-topic comments, personal attacks, and inappropriate language may be flagged and removed, and comment privileges blocked, per our Terms of Service. Thanks for keeping the comments space respectful.

Privacy Policy

HTML is not allowed.

You have indicated this comment should be removed.

Close

The comment has been submitted for review. Thank you .

corporatemom said on November 18, 2009 at 9:25 AM

Then freedom of speech should exist for all. Therefore, Trimet buses should also carry ads promoting God.

qbdix said on November 18, 2009 at 9:35 AM

Well, millions of people do think they are good without God. Just rent the other side of the bus. "Being good won't get you into heaven".

tracer2009 said on November 18, 2009 at 10:03 AM

Question everything! Don't be sheep. Talk. Discuss.

shallowend said on November 18, 2009 at 10:16 AM

United Methodist Church (the "open Doors" campaign) has advertised on Trimet. As long as someone is actually paying for the ads, speak away!

grannystar said on November 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

It's about time! I get so sick of having reliigon crammed down my throat.

bob47 said on November 18, 2009 at 10:40 AM

"Then freedom of speech should exist for all. Therefore, Trimet buses should also carry ads promoting God." -- corporatemom, TriMet certainly can and will carry ads with a religious message as long as someone pays them for it. This is "Free Speech" but "Free Advertising"; and that is what this is. If a church wants to buy an ad, TriMet will run it. Plain and simple. Personally I like the ad. It’s sparks conversation. Also, competition is the basis of our whole economy. Companies compete for your business and no one company can have a monopoly. So why should one religion rule the world. Why does one have to be better than another? Whose religion is right? This ad is basically asking you if you didn’t have your religion would you still be a good person. I don’t believe in a religion, yet I know right from wrong and always strive to grow and become a better person. IMHO that is what I believe religion should be for people; something to believe in to become better.

bob47 said on November 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM

"Being good won't get you into heaven". Which heaven do you speak of? The one for Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Confucianism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Juche, Spiritism, Judaism, Baha'i, Jainism, Shinto, Cao Dai, Zoroastrianism, Tenrikyo, or Scientology? Unless you believe in them all, and this list only scratches the thousands of religions/beliefs that exist, no one is going to heaven. ;)

roguepaul said on November 18, 2009 at 10:52 AM

being an athiest is like being a jew in 1939 germany.. you just are too darn afraid to admit it or express it... well, i too, am tired of religion being shoved down our throaths. i live by the golden rule and do just fine, thank you.~~~~ feel free and good keeping your beliefs......and i will keep mine.

corporatemom said on November 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Interesting - ya'll are sick & tired of having religion shoved down your throats. I am SICK of the outward attack on Christianity, the RIGHT to believe and the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to practice the religion of my choice. BTW - I never said religion should be advertised on Trimet for free. SO - if ya'll think it's ok to attack God on billboards - then it should be EQUALLY ok to attack Allah (Why aren't you doing that??? or Budda????? and Non believers. Equal is Equal - Right?

bob47 said on November 18, 2009 at 11:13 AM

You say attack as if people are trying to kill people who believe in Christianity.. Can you say Crusades? Now that was an attack. Killing in the name of god; can it get more hypocritical than that?

augustmoon said on November 18, 2009 at 11:16 AM

This sort of reminds me of the graffiti one would read in public restrooms in the 1960;s: "God is Dead, signed Nietzche." And then, " Nietzche is Dead, signed God." And then there was this popular riddle back then: "If love is bllind and God is love, then is Ray Charles God?" Ah people, let us not take this all so very seriously! Love God or Buddha, who cares? Bottom line: being the best person you can be in a complex and dangerous world and let people hope and believe what they want. Thanks "GOD" that we live in a country with the First Amendment (oh, and yes, the Founding Fathers as well.)

bob47 said on November 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM

agree with augustmoon. Believe in what you need too to become the best "you" you can be.

veganpeace said on November 18, 2009 at 11:24 AM

Thank Goddess the 1st Amendment and the U.N. Charter are being adhered to by Tri-Met Every time some sanity comes into focus in Portland, the covert agents of Bush/Cheney/Reagan and Bill Cosby stand-up in opposition. Still, the fact that bus service requires criminal Neo-KKKon fossil fuels, does not relieve Tri-Met of their anti Gore and anti Kyoto environmental sins against the peoples of Mother Earth.

linda79 said on November 18, 2009 at 11:25 AM

FYI, Trimet has carried ads for Billy Graham and other evangelicals in the past - this new ad is not an "attack on Christianity". Corporatemom and roguepaul - you seem to represent the polarity of the debate - where folks feel attacked for their beliefs due to the lack of civility in a debate. It's a debate - and you don't get to scream down someone who does not agree with you.

bizill said on November 18, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Errr, corpmom, you're not very bright, are you? I have seen the Luis Palau (sp) festival advertised on Tri Met many times. That's a religious festival, right? So if they are allowed to advertise on Tri Met, why do you have such a huge problem with people that have a different belief advertising on Tri Met?

shallowend said on November 18, 2009 at 12:23 PM

No, this is not an attack (as opposed to the blatant hate speech in the Olympia display last year). If it was, then Trimet would not be obliged to accept the ad. I have no problems with believers (I am one), nor do I have a problem with those who do not believe. (Although I do like asking them "So what is your basis for accepting a law against killing since there is no divine mandate?" I rarely get an intelligent answer to that one.) Religion is far too personal a subject, and faith is as intensely personal an issue as can exist, so it should be no surprise that it generates so much heat (and the debate generates so little light). Bob47: I would like to point out efforts by athiest regimes to eradicate religion (Soviet Union, China, Romania, Poland) often included fatal "detention". I've read the human trait as "Different is Dead" (meaning that we view anything that does not conform to our view as a threat. no religion is without its shame, as is a lack of religion.

shallowend said on November 18, 2009 at 12:39 PM

bizill: Thanks for injecting your own total lack of civility into the debate. CorpMom is quite bright, and while I frequently do not agree with her, I respect her opinions as thoughtful and deeply held. You are a poster child for the problem: rather then substance, ATTACK!

corporatemom said on November 18, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Uh bizill - I think you are the one that doesn't get it. Advertising when Palau, Graham, Gore, are advertising EVENTS. So - do you believe then that buses should be able to carry messages as "Believe in God - hundreds of millions do" , If Allah was a real God he would never instruct you to kill"...... If either one of these statements appeared on a bus, the ACLU would be all over it. (1) Believe in God--they would say there should be a separation of church & state & the trimet is gov owned & shouldn't be advertising religion. (2) a statement against Allah would be labeled as a racial hate crime.

tracer2009 said on November 18, 2009 at 1:00 PM

So Trimet says it "neither approves or denounces the coalition's message", but are appealing the ruling anyway. Sounds like they don't approve to me and want to pick and choose who can advertise. Not a good approach, Trimet.

bob47 said on November 18, 2009 at 1:02 PM

shallowend I was not aware of that information. Although I am a non-believer of any religion, thus being branded an atheist, I do not belong to any organization which openly practices a singular religious/non-religious belief. I am not as familiar with main stream Atheism as I am with Christianity as I grew up going to church; I have not gone to Atheist church, or what ever it may be called.

surah said on November 18, 2009 at 1:07 PM

I'm a proud Atheist - but putting it aside, I truly don't see the issue with this. It's freedom of speech. Corporate Mom - If that's what you believe, then that's great. I haven't seen any ads yet promoting god, but I'm sure TriMet wouldn't have a problem with it. It's a publicly owned company and they would have no choice but to put it on.

cyclepete77 said on November 18, 2009 at 1:14 PM

finally....Atheist have a vehicle (pun intended) where they can advertise. Most billboards are privately owned and usually do not allow athiestic messages for fear of the irrational emotional outrage of the believers.... Corpmom as definition of gods go, how is Allah any less of a god than the Judeo-Christian god...I think you meant that Tri-met should run an ad, "if you were a true Muslim you wouldn't kill in the name of your religion"...but then again you could run that for christians also..."Thou shalt not kill...means always".... Why do you care what is on a bus or billboard...Are your beliefs so shallow that the mere sight of another view might make you change your views, or you might get a question from your child that you cannot adequately address to support your view?

iamconcerned said on November 18, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Personally I don't believe in god but I don't let the constant references to god and religion bother me. They are everywhere: on TV, radio, classrooms, hallway and watercooler discussions. Most people are okay with all the religious references but it is amazing how the religious right are all over anyone who dares to have a different opinion.

jiminpdx said on November 18, 2009 at 1:17 PM

Corp Mom, I agree. Atheists should not worry what Christians do and Christians should not worry about what Atheists do.

jiminpdx said on November 18, 2009 at 1:18 PM

And Corp Mom, you should not be so concerned about what the ACLU does.

spewie said on November 18, 2009 at 1:40 PM

As he runs a red light, a Tri-Met driver will be texting god and alering him about these shamful ads. I wouldn't want to be riding one of these 'hate buses' when the lightning bolts start striking them. Si Se Puede!

corporatemom said on November 18, 2009 at 1:46 PM

jim-glad to see you-haven't heard from you in awhile!! Hope all is ok. I do care about the ACLU because they practice selective freedom and not freedom for all. Surah & other athestis - constitution provides you the freedom not to believe. But that same constitution provides me the EQUAL right to believe. I should be free to say Merry Christmas without fear. Pledge of Allegiance says "one nation under God". Instead of prohibiting children from saying it, teach children who's families don't believe to not say the line and stand quietly. 88% of American's believe - why squash their beliefs to make 12% of the people happy. Is that equal?? Thanks Shallow :)

cyclepete77 said on November 18, 2009 at 1:58 PM

CorpMom...Sure you have te freedom to believe in what you want as we all do (within the law). And you have the right to say any non offensive thing you want. You have the right to tell me about your god, but I also have the right to tell you that I have heard that fairly tale before and I don't think it is a very good one, so leave me alone and go away...Which I what I would do, because I have the right to do that.. So don't get mad, when I, or others legally do it.

augustmoon said on November 18, 2009 at 2:01 PM

Okay, if 88% of Americans believe and 12% disbelieve in God, then the believers are a majority. God for President!

cyclepete77 said on November 18, 2009 at 2:06 PM

Equality is for the minority, not the majority....Equality is so that everyone has the same voice...no one needs to legislate for the majority. Equality does not equal majority rule. Otherwise, some states in this country would still be stringing up black people and making them drink at separate water fountains. And the Pledge of Allegiance did not have "under god" in it until the 1950s, when our money got it too. Teach your children the history of "In God we Trust" and the introduction of "god" in our government.

stephmarie2 said on November 18, 2009 at 2:40 PM

I guess I just really don't understand why these people care if I believe in God or not. It's something like 92% of people believe a God... Maybe I will purchase some advertisement time saying just that.

debm09 said on November 18, 2009 at 2:42 PM

I say believe what you want to believe and allow the others the same choice without being hateful about it. I am an Atheist, but I won't push my views on you just like I don't want anyone pushing theirs on me or judging me for what I do or do not believe. The ad is just a simple statement.

jgalt said on November 18, 2009 at 3:05 PM

CMom, we don't need advertising to poke at Islam - that's what cartoons are for apparently. There are a number of billboards and messages that say "God bless" and whatnot, it just seems to cause an uproar when there are messages that run contrary to religion without a pro-religious message to run along with it. Please accept that those without religion in their lives are also free to espouse their message. My acceptance of your religious stance depends on your acceptance of my own. Tell me I'm going to hell and chances are I'll tell you do the same. ;)

washcomom said on November 18, 2009 at 3:09 PM

I'm good without God, but I'm alot better with Him in my life. Thanks for the ad. It actually will make people think about what they value - whether it be good or bad. It's a talking point well taken.

corporatemom said on November 18, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Cyclepete - you are wrong. Equality for ALL

suzeiki said on November 18, 2009 at 4:55 PM

Religion was invented because people are terrified of their own mortality.

corporatemom said on November 18, 2009 at 6:00 PM

Religion wasn't invented - God is real. Don't worry Suzeiki - I'll pray for your sole and the others on this site - it's my constitutional right.

suzeiki said on November 18, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Corporate mom you don't have to pray for my shoe. If you were talking about my "soul", it is just fine, thank you very much.

nwskeptic said on November 18, 2009 at 7:59 PM

Sorry roguepaul, but I don't see atheists being thrown into ghettos or concentration camps, and murdered in mass number. Not a very good analogy

djbeatboypdx said on November 18, 2009 at 9:02 PM

I can't believe this gets so many people fired up. It's freedom of speech. If the message doesn't apply to you in your life then forget about it. A quote I have learned helps me in this respect, "Take what you need and leave the rest."

zobcity1 said on November 18, 2009 at 9:47 PM

Yes they are very confused and want people to join their rut. misery loves company dont ya darwin?

natasha88 said on November 18, 2009 at 11:18 PM

To shallowend: Why is a "divine mandate" needed to abide by a law that forbids killing others? I don't get that.

ricksroses said on November 19, 2009 at 12:58 AM

I'm a veteran who fought for your rights to freedom of speech and freedom of religion, which are guaranteed under our Constitution, whether you agree with them or not. As a former agnostic I can appreciate the sentiment that strong advocates for Christianity, or any other organized religion, can seem determined to convince non-believers to believe as they do. As now a believer (try reading "A Case For Christ", but only if you're interested in learning something), I can also appreciate the sentiment that in this democracy, the majority are having their rights to freedom of religion trampled on by a vocal minority. The truth is that atheists, Christians, Muslims, Buddists, etc. etc. have the right to believe as they wish in this country, and no one should try to abridge these rights. We also can't abridge the rights of anyone to free speech, whether you like the message or not. You are, as pointed out above, free to ignore the messages you don't agree with.

athegirl said on November 19, 2009 at 2:47 AM

corpmom: "if ya'll think it's ok to attack God on billboards - then it should be EQUALLY ok to attack Allah (Why aren't you doing that??? or Budda?????" what makes you assume the by using "god", the ad directly referring to your god, the christian version of god? i don't understand that. 1. atheism is the rejection of all gods, and guess what, there are thousands! 2. allah means god in arabic 3. buddha isn't a god. and you spelt it wrong.

spectatohead said on November 19, 2009 at 6:57 AM

I don't think that you can attack something that doesn't exist. There is no evidence of any of humanity's gods. Whether it's Jehovah, Allah, Zeus, Rah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster they were all invented by humans. You shouldn't need the threat of punishment or promise of reward to be a good person. You should be a good person because it is the right thing and the human thing to do. Our species will never advance if we keep clinging to these primitive superstitions. We are the fourth largest belief group in the world. We atheists outnumber Jews, Buddhists, and several other religions in this country and we are the fastest growing group too. More people are thinking logically and realize that they don't need an imaginary friend anymore. It kind of irritates me that our politicians will try to cater to various religious groups but not one has ever offered any support to the 10% of us that don't need a fictional crutch to get through life.

deliadarrow said on November 19, 2009 at 7:42 AM

shallowend: I always find it shocking when 'believers' assert that the only thing standing between them being a law-abiding citizen and a child-rapist or a murderer is book of Bronze Age mythology. I am an Atheist and as I believe in the fact of Evolution, I know that humanity has survived because we live in cooperative societies and we have evolved to be compassionate, empathetic animals. Because these traits help the race survive, they have been propagated. I need no fairy-tale to tell me right from wrong, these things are obvious in a cooperative, compassionate society. Your emphasis on the Soviet Union, China, Romania, etc., being "atheist regimes" is misguided. They were totalitarian states, and as such, -any- organization (from Catholics to Boy Scouts) that had a dogma that rivalled the power of the state or that was a center where people gathered and resistance was liable to be fomented was quashed as a threat to those in power. It was not chiefly 'atheism vs. religion'.

davidj said on November 19, 2009 at 8:24 AM

Hey, Scott Burton. One word for you, spellcheck. Now I'll go back to imagining no religion.

spewie said on November 19, 2009 at 8:28 AM

spectatohead; Please don't ridicule or mailign my diety (FSM). Had you been touched by his noodley appendage you'd fully understand the complexities of life and its universal meaning. Si Se Puede! Si Se Pasta!

bob47 said on November 19, 2009 at 9:05 AM

Two logical thinking reasons as two why I question all religion. 1) If you were born/raised in another time/state/country you would believe something completely different than what you do now. 2) Why would any "God" rely on a communication method we humans use as a joke to show how poor we listen and remember? I'm talking about the Telephone Game. You know the one where you tell the message to one person at the beginning of the line, and watch how the message transforms into a completely different message when it gets to the end. Now that is one divine communication method right there! ;)

striker991 said on November 19, 2009 at 10:23 AM

Can you say "noodley appendage" in a public forum? BTW, I didn't see this much uproar over the Billy Graham ads on Tri-Met buses...

caffineaddict said on November 19, 2009 at 11:01 AM

All you that use "You won't go to heaven.", Athiests don't believe in heaven or hell, so that makes your argument erroneous. It's moot. Corporate Mom, I'm sure you're a good Christian. That's great for you. I think the reason that Christians are singled out so much, is because of the poor examples of Christianity. Men standing on sidewalks, screaming, carrying HATE FILLED signs and verbally abusing anybody that crosses their paths. The ones that make YOU look bad. They're the example that a lot of us have of Christians, and it's a very poor representation. Then there's Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker, Benny Hinn, et al. Who are all also not good examples of Good Christians. They are extortionists who prey (no pun intended) on good people and use Christianity to do so. Then there's the hundreds upon thousands of cults based on Christianity; Heaven's Gate, Jonestown, Branch Davidian, Strong City, Spawn Ranch, etc. These are not positive examples of your faith.

corporatemom said on November 19, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Now - to all the non believers - YOU don't want others religious beliefs shoved down your throats but yet you feel it's ok to flaunt & shove your non beliefs down everyone elses throats. So non believers have a right to free speech but believers should not be permitted to discuss their beliefs? Hum-- hypocrites?????

rollexx1910 said on November 19, 2009 at 12:21 PM

"Are you good without God?" A simple question, no?...As an atheist, I always find it amusing how little it takes to get the "believers" in an uproar. I can't count the number of times I have come up behind a car at a stop light with a bumper sticker telling me in effect, I'm going to hell because I don't believe what they do. Oh well... I'll also never forget the time I was walking into a store when a young man approached me with a religious pamphlet. I politely told him no thanks, I wasn't into that. He asked if I believed in Jesus Christ and when I told him no and turned to go into the store, he responded.."Enjoy it in Hell"... As Jack once said......" YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!! :)

burbmom said on November 19, 2009 at 12:47 PM

Christians, if you believe that God is the only thing preventing you from murdering and commiting other such crimes, then please, for all of humanity, continue believing!

burbmom said on November 19, 2009 at 12:50 PM

Chrisitans, if God is the only thing preventing you from murdering or committing other such crimes, then please, for all of humanity, continue believing!

caffineaddict said on November 19, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Corporate mom, there is a WORLD of difference between believers discussing their beliefs and a person standing on a street corner with a 10 foot tall sign listing everybody that "God Hates....." and verbally abusing anybody that walks by. I NEVER ONCE said that they don't have the right to do so. What I said was these people are the reson that Christians have a bad rap. Believers should ABSOLUTELY be able to PEACEFULLY express their faith, just like non-believers should be able to PEACEFULLY express their views. The ads on the buses are not hurting you and if you are secure with your faith, then what are you so worried about? I have this strong feeling from you that you are on the personal defense, and nobody's personally attacking you. I feel you're a great person with a big heart and a lot of passion. I'd walk beside you and fight to defend your right to your faith and I hope you would do the same for me. It doesn't HAVE to be a fight. It CAN be easier than everybody's making it.

stephmarie2 said on November 19, 2009 at 2:12 PM

I am a christian... But I am NOT in an uproar... I am liberal (kinda an oxymoron) But I just don't understand the point in having an ad like this.

striker991 said on November 19, 2009 at 2:18 PM

@stephmarie2: Your post is refreshing. If everyone felt similar to you, there would be no point.

prayineagle said on November 19, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Everyone has the right to their beliefs. I believe in God, but I do not feel the need to cram it down any one else's throat and try to change their belief. It is up the every individual person to believe in who or what they want. I don't think it is wise to have debates on God or politics as everyone has their own opinions and there is always someone wanting to change someone's belief. To each their own. It is their life and they can live and believe in who ever or whatever they want. If Trimet wants to put up the ad, then let them, For those of you who do not agree with it, just leave it alone.

cybersleuth said on November 20, 2009 at 4:15 PM

A mode of public transportation is not the proper forum for religious messages. And "exhistance" is spelled "existence" - maybe they should advertise higher education instead. Now, that's something we all could use more of, unless they are willing to advertise free money, too (of which they seem to have plenty of these days with stimulus money for lightrail construction).

screenname said on November 21, 2009 at 6:37 PM

Corporate mom, you're making this about yourself. Your perception is limited and certainly myopic.